Digital Forensics Now
A podcast by digital forensics examiners for digital forensics examiners. Hear about the latest news in digital forensics and learn from researcher interviews with field memes sprinkled in.
Digital Forensics Now
All About The Latest CTFs, CFPs, C2C, & All The News For You To See
Embark on an enlightening path as we meld the celebration of Black History Month with the dynamism of mobile forensics. This episode is a tribute not only to the past but a clarion call for the future, as we honor Annie Easley, the trailblazing NASA computer scientist, while also navigating the rapidly evolving landscape of digital investigation tools. As your guides, we unravel the intricacies of open-source forensics tools, and the necessity of test devices, ensuring your knowledge remains at the forefront of technological advancements.
With a constant eye on professional growth, we're excited to share information about upcoming conferences, training and opportunities to sharpen your digital forensic skills. We share our experiences, opening doors for you to learn and grow right beside us. Our conversation takes a stimulating turn as we discuss the Rabbit R1, a new AI gadget that promises to redefine app interaction and its implications for data privacy. As we dissect the nuances of AI in fingerprint analysis, we invite you to journey with us through the maze of modern forensics, where even the uniqueness of fingerprints is called into question.
As we wrap up, our passion for the subject matter shines through with the introduction of cutting-edge features in mobile forensics updates, and the vital role of resource management in our field. We laugh over the meme of the week but also reflect on the serious undertones it brings to the prioritization of forensic cases. Closing the session, we express our heartfelt gratitude for the engagement and support that fuels our podcast, leaving you with an anticipation for deeper discussions and discoveries in the episodes to come. Join us, and together, let's shape the narrative of digital forensics and its rich connection to history and innovation.
Notes-
Honoring Annie Easley-Black History Month Feb 2024
https://elective.collegeboard.org/annie-easley-computer-science-pioneer
Testing and Validation
https://www.hexordia.com/blog-1-1/unlock-rooting-pixel6a
https://blog.d204n6.com/2020/08/setting-up-testing-lab-of-ios-and.html
Paraben Forensic Innovation Conference
https://pfic-conference.com/
Free Android Training from Belkasoft
https://belkasoft.com/android-forensics-training
Cellebrite Case to Closure Summit and Awards
https://global-c2c-summit-2024.cventevents.com/event/ec371a30-107d-4ce4-8bad-44e331148339/summary
https://cellebrite.com/en/c2c-summit-digital-justice-awards/
Magnet Virtual Summit/Capture the Flag
https://magnetvirtualsummit.com/
https://magnetvirtualsummit.com/capture-the-flag/
Rabbit R1
https://www.theverge.com/2024/1/9/24030667/rabbit-r1-ai-action-model-price-release-date
AI- Fingerprints Unique or Maybe Not?
https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/12/world/fingerprints-ai-based-study-scn/index.html
Layoffs Due to AI
https://www.theverge.com/2024/1/14/24038397/google-layoffs-just-the-beginning
Hidden Gem in iOS 17
https://www.linkedin.com/posts/luca-cadonici-41299b4b_ios-ipados-passcode-activity-7152770642168160257-VJ7C
Android Auto Reboots
https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/grapheneos-frequent-android-auto-reboots-block-firmware-exploits/
The LEAPPS
https://github.com/abrignoni
Alright and we are live. Today is Thursday, February 1st 2024. My name is Alexis Briggs-Brignoni and I'm accompanied by the never-ending meeting director, the chip of the old Buick truck block and the person you can hide anything from if it's on a digital storage medium the one and only Heather Charpentier. The music is hired by Shane Avers and can be found at Silverman Sound dot com. Hello, heather.
Speaker 2:Hello, thank you for the, as always, wonderful intro.
Speaker 1:You know, I know you like the whole chip of the old block there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's great. I look forward to every two weeks when I can hear what the intro of me is going to be for this podcast. You never disappoint.
Speaker 1:Yeah, kevin says he LOL's at the intros. I mean sending hi to Lori she's up in the chat as well and if you're listening and you're not in the chat, just come in and participate. Yeah, so what have you been up to? What's been going on the last couple of weeks?
Speaker 2:Nothing much. I mean well, super busy with everything. Yeah, work is crazy, as always.
Speaker 1:Nothing much. A whole bunch.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so nothing much exciting. I guess Work is really crazy. You know same old stuff working on the class for IASIS with you. So other than that, nothing exciting. How about with you?
Speaker 1:Good, good, I'm just working on some parses that I need. So folks be on the lookout for ILEAP and ALEAP some of the tools that I help with, open source tool and so we do some new parsers for them in the last couple of weeks and yeah, just busy, not as busy as you, and I'm going to share this with the community You're a really able and capable chip off person, which I respect immensely. So that's why the little insight you're there on the chip off the old block from a Buick, all this chip was that you have, you know you do and all that. So that's amazing.
Speaker 2:But yeah, the vehicles are. We're really busy with tripping off vehicles, so it's been, it's been crazy.
Speaker 1:And you know what that's. That's something we should be. Maybe, maybe do a little segment on, you know, for next episode. You know, I think we should do that. We haven't really talked about cars.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we have not. We should definitely add it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so we can say we talk about computers and cars I mean sorry, it's phones and cars.
Speaker 2:Right, it's only computers. Yeah, someday, someday, one of my co-worker, kevin, watches this. Someday, kevin, I promise yeah.
Speaker 1:So yeah, but other than that, I mean just doing some parsers, just just working cases and the whole is is. If you don't know what is is is. It's a nonprofit educational organization that prepares individuals to become the tarp and six seminars and they have all sorts of courses and we volunteer with them. So we're going to be teaching the advanced mobile forensics course. So there's still space. So if anybody wants to use you know, learn a little bit from with us and from us, then go ahead and check it out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, definitely, it's the last week of April or first week of into the first week of May, so yeah, there's two sessions, that's why it's the two, the two weeks.
Speaker 1:So you can take either first week or the second week, same content both weeks.
Speaker 2:So and in sunny Orlando, so it's at least a nice place to absolutely.
Speaker 1:Oh, I didn't put my. I didn't put my, my fireworks. I had to put them later. Their reactions, I need to do that. Oh, oh, here they are. Here they are, let me. Let me put my fireworks there we go, that's even better.
Speaker 2:Very fancy, all right.
Speaker 1:So yeah, so let's, let's get into the show the credits, the chat is lighting up, that's awesome. So what do we have? What's the first first topic here?
Speaker 2:So we are actually going to talk about black history month. It started today and I'll let you. I'll let you start with that topic.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I got here a nice little. You know logo here. You know black history matters. You know 365 days a year and I love this different events and you know awareness that you know to every month. So this month is black history months and I want to talk a little bit about some pioneers and hopefully we can do this throughout the month. Pioneers into computing right and I want to bring up let me see if I can do you have the, do you have the?
Speaker 2:yeah.
Speaker 1:So we're going to bring up, we're going to talk briefly about Annie Isley, all right, and she worked at NASA. You know, you know her career during the sixies, during the space race and all type of stuff, and you might be familiar with the context If you watch the movie. What's the movie? Hidden figures, hidden figures, right, and it's a great movie. I think you know. We've both seen it, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, excellent movie.
Speaker 1:And some of these, these, you know, pretty much genius women. They were literal human computers, right? They would. The engineers would have a mathematical problem and and they would do it, you know, do it by hand. Well, annie Isley, she, the moment you know mechanical computers, they're mechanical in the sense of you know computers as we know them today came out. She would not be left behind, right? So she went in and started coding in Fortran and soap and some other. You know languages and her, her contributions to the field of, you know, brocketry and computer science, and even to hybrid technology, like you know, hybrid, like electrical, and you know different energy technologies. Her contributions are the foundation to many of the things that we take for granted nowadays in those fields. So it's always good to, you know, remember those that came before us, those whose shoulders we stand on, and, you know, take them, as you know, first of all recognition of their importance, but also as inspiration for us to to achieve even more. So, for this week, annie Isley is our, our person to remember.
Speaker 1:So yeah there we go.
Speaker 2:All right, so we're going to get right into some topics.
Speaker 2:So this is a topic that we talk about a lot, so, and you're probably never going to stop hearing about this topic from either of us but testing and validation when it comes to mobile devices and I mean the importance of testing and validation we've mentioned on this podcast numerous times, and it's such an important part of the digital forensic process, and Huxordia actually just released a blog not too long ago and it's a walkthrough to unlocking and rooting an Android device.
Speaker 2:So it it takes you through all of the steps that you need to perform in order to unlock and root an Android device and prepare it to be your test device. I really, really like this blog because it not only addresses how to do this, but it addresses the challenge that challenges that might arise during the rooting process. Anybody who's worked in digital forensics knows that there are always challenges. I have something goes wrong all the time but Huxordia Jessica's blog actually addresses which some of those common challenges that will arise. This is one of the most detailed walkthroughs that I've seen on this topic, so did you get a chance to take a look at it?
Speaker 1:Oh, no, absolutely and it's worth. It's worthwhile checking out. I always I don't know who said. Who said it's something like you know, an expert is a person that has tried all the wrong ways. Something could happen until they get to the that actually worked. Right. And and you know, you think somebody, you know that person is so knowledgeable, right, that person is a genius. Well, that person most likely committed all the mistakes that are to be committed before they get to the point they needed to be right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that the mistakes that they've run into are pointed out in this blog because you don't have to go try and figure it out on your own for these mistakes. But rest assured, new errors will come through.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and make him know.
Speaker 1:So we can shortcut the process if we're following your process? No, and this is important. So I'll give an example for the folks, as they were watching and listening. So, heather, we were talking about what I think it's last night we're looking at I think it's Google chat, right, and we're like, well, we're looking for these pictures and where are the pictures? How can we put them into this chat that we're looking at to make a parser for it for some? You know, looking at it, and the only reason we were able to get where we need it to go is that Heather had done a test data, right, she had taken notes of how she did it and what actions she took, and then she took that extraction out with all the access to the data, and now we can make proper interpretations and that's important, because it's not the same thing to say, look, I'm looking at something or an extraction from a device where I do not know how it got there, I don't know the user actions and you can make wrong conclusions because you don't know how they came to be.
Speaker 1:Right Now, based on that, on the Heather knew the process, we were able to get where we needed to be, and I'll mention a little bit later in the show, an example of me making, I say, mistake, but it's me dealing with limited data. So I did a parser for Gmail emails and it works great, there's no problem. Well, if you happen to have more than one Gmail account in the app tied to the app, the tooling only parses one and that's it. What about the other two? Well, the coding was not multi-account aware. So a good contributor, a person from the community I will mention a bit later, sent me a pull request.
Speaker 1:Pull request means data to be added to the platform to fix that issue, right. So therefore, then we can parse as many as we need, right? Well, why did I make that mistake? Because my data set only had the one account, right. And again, that speaks of you creating that test data and working some more of that. And before I let you chime in on that, let me just put in Kevin. Kevin is one of the maintainers with me, one of the you know my right-hand person. He says that he will catch up with some of those he promises, so he'll be updating those.
Speaker 2:Everybody will be waiting for you, Kevin.
Speaker 1:Again. What are you doing here? Go get the last show.
Speaker 2:Get go coding man. No time for this. So I love this blog by Hexordia Prior. Well that prior to that, still in conjunction with that, I use Chris Vance. He had put out a blog about the same process, but also for iOS and Android. So the blog is entitled Setting Up a Testing Lab of iOS and Android Devices, and there's a great walkthrough of the process of preparing a test phone in that blog as well. Excellent resource.
Speaker 1:You got to have your test phones. If your Android, maybe, if you don't have a test phone available, may do virtual machine with Android on it. Use the guides on doing that. If you have money to burn, then you can get Corellium for iOS, but I don't think anybody does.
Speaker 2:Really expensive, right? Yeah, it is expensive.
Speaker 1:But, either way, get your test data and make sure like looking at Protobufs is something that I've been talking about a lot lately and I will mention in the show a little bit more you need to know the context. You need to say, ok, this is the device that came from my investigation, this is great, I have the data. I'm going to replicate, or try to replicate some of that data on my test device, or just create data and see how similar they are so I can get to the proper conclusions. Right, it's essential that we start doing that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, definitely, and I have a couple of test devices, android and iOS. I bought them on eBay for pretty cheap use devices that people were selling, oh you can find there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, a quick note. If we're gonna put all the show notes and I mean, sorry, all the URLs that you see on the screen, the show notes, if for some reason you cannot pull them up because I think in YouTube there's a little icon there is getting in the way, don't sweat it, we're gonna go put in the show notes, either both in YouTube and at the detail. Forensics now dot bus, sprout dot com. Right, yeah, yeah, sight, you can go to the episodes there and you can see the notes, see the URL. So don't don't sweat it, don't try to copy them now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, we will definitely provide them. So there are a ton of conferences and trainings and just some opportunities for learning coming up, so we're gonna just talk about some some of those now.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, absolutely so, which one we have first year.
Speaker 2:So the Parabon Forensic Innovation Conference is the first one and it's a free virtual conference. There's multiple dates for this, so when you go, take a look at the website for this. There's multiple one day events and it focuses on issues in digital forensics, open source intelligence and other other things that cyber professionals may be dealing with.
Speaker 1:So, amber, you know the CEO and president. She's awesome and I can assure you that her events are really, really worth your time.
Speaker 2:And then here's the link to that and then another opportunity that is coming up, this one's for some training. We had talked previously about Belkisoff putting on a free iOS training. They're now doing the same thing, but for Android. So with the Belkisoff training you'll get a 30 day trial license of Belkisoff training materials, video tutorials, pre recorded webinars that you can watch, articles, and then there'll be some practical tasks that you perform during this training and you'll receive a certificate of completion and achievement and the successful completion in the course will also. You'll earn six CPE credits for that and they also had a bonus for this one. Certificate recipients will get a discount on their next purchase of Belkisoff. So if anybody's a Belkisoff user and or wants to become a Belkisoff user, if you take this free training, it looks like you'll get some sort of discount on the next, on the next purchase.
Speaker 2:I don't know if it's for training or if it's for the tools. But you'll find out when you go sign up for the free training.
Speaker 1:No, absolutely, and Belkisoff, we were able to do the iOS one and it was really good.
Speaker 2:So yeah, I thought it was really good too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I think it's worthwhile. Also, the CPEs. I think more organizations should do something like that, right? Hey, look, here's some CPEs. Because one thing that, as for security examiners, you know, we all know we need to keep up with so many certifications, right, and those certifications have some, you know, continuing education credits they need to put in. So having these and be able to knock those out, that also helps a lot. So it's well done by Belkisoft.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's free from February 26 through March 26. So make sure you go get registered and learn all you can about Android.
Speaker 1:Yeah, get them while it's free. It's the best cost point there. Price point.
Speaker 2:Yeah, definitely, Definitely yeah. So after March 26, it'll be a paid course.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so go with free.
Speaker 2:You can go wrong with free and then other events that are coming up here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so which one? We have the Celebri one, right? Yeah, so Celebri is you know they're coming out. We discussed it a thing last year, or the show before, the case to closure concept, where they're renaming their tools or adding in it some sort of family branding good stuff. So they also come in with a case to closure summit and the summit is going to be from August 5th to the eighth in DC, washington DC. So there'll be, you know, sutterbright expert lead sessions in regards to training and you can talk to other examiners. The CEO is going to be speaking there and they actually have a call for papers. I think is either it came out or it's going to come out. So if you want to participate, you know, submit your proposal and you might be able to present. You know I would love to submit, but it's a trouble. I'm a little bit far, far away, but we'll see what happens and you know, if you get selected, you can go there and really participate and be part of that community.
Speaker 1:Another thing they're doing that I think it's it's it's nice is they're doing what they're calling the Detail Justice Awards, and yeah, so there's a link there and let me see if I can bring up, put on the screen the website for it. So let me select here. There we go. So the awards as you can see here there's different categories. Before I go into the categories, you, some of them can be. You can go and submit people to be, you know, to be considered for these awards. So if you go scroll down the page, where is it? That's just right here, is right in my face, all right. So you're using the right here. You put your name, you know who you are, email some information, obviously the one about a you know this a legit submission, and you can select the category there that you want to submit somebody to be considered for and then, and then you put why and all that.
Speaker 1:So what are the categories? Well, you got case of the year. So you know it talks about case that had a broad impact. You know, in the society or the community that you can, you can speak of and you know so it doesn't have to be only law enforcement. It could be a case, you know, in the private sector. That's fine as well. They have the community guardian award and these are folks that are, you know, program for campaigns that help with public safety. Right, obviously, in the in the realm, we are just the digital bridge builder award. So folks that are foster collaboration, so that's a pretty nice one. What's the other? Heather, you have a more screen.
Speaker 2:I do, I do so. A voice of voiceless award, or voice for the voiceless award, so a voice to the victims through digital forensics. Great category to have mentor of the year. So if you have a somebody who's mentoring you a great mentor, put them in for this award. There's the diversity and inclusion champion, yep and Design Partner of the Year. I believe that one is if you're involved in the Design Partner Program. So if you're an active participant in the Celebrates Design Partner Program, if you don't know what that is, you can join their Design Partner Program and become a beta tester for the upcoming versions of their tools that are coming out, so you'll try them first and provide feedback from your beta testing.
Speaker 1:Yep, and we have what else?
Speaker 1:We have the Racing Star Award, so folks that are newcomers into the field, and then we have the Excellence in Data Forensics Award, right, so you know, it's a person or a group of people that really have a track record of doing great work in this field.
Speaker 1:So I will say something I like about these awards is that a couple of categories they say I'm sorry I'm going up and down the screen there, nobody's dizzy Celebrates selects, so they have a combination of kind of community led awards and some they actually, you know, they have an internal committee, I would assume, that will select the person to be recognized, and that's something that I like, because a lot can be gained, I should say, by the consensus of the folks that vote right or public opinion, but not always right. Just because the majority votes for something doesn't mean that something is the best Right. That's true I like about it. I like to hear what the community says, but I also like to, you know, have a group of people say hey, look, these are worthwhile in their own right. And this type of award is so important because recently the SANS Forecast Awards have completed. It had a really long run. Do you know how many years I would say like, what, like, oh my God.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I have no idea A lot.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I want to say a decade, but I don't know. Maybe somebody in the chat knows. So, for those that are not familiar, sans had the Forecast Awards and they were all community led, in the sense that the community would nominate people, the top three or four, depending on the category. Top three or four nominees will be put into vote again to the community and Lori says they were since 2009. So quite a while.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And then you know whoever the community voted first, then they would win. And you know, I've been lucky enough to be nominated a few times and the tooling has been nominated a few times and it's great for awareness, but now it's done so it's not a thing anymore and other type of awards in this field, hopefully, can feel the space. And I say this because I think most in terms of awareness, these type of awards, the big benefit for me is that makes me aware of the work other people are doing, people that are that should be. I should be following them or trying to see what they're going on, and it kind of helps create the broader cultures, not the culture, the utter forensics culture. That's not what the awards are, but it helps foster more of that community and DF culture that we're trying to establish. Even with this humble little show, tend to create content that speaks to our interests. So I think it's a good thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, definitely, let me take that down, all right. Another event coming up is the Magnet Virtual Summit, so that runs from February 27th to March 7th and it's a summit where people can go and share and obtain digital forensics knowledge. I think there's over 60 presenters in fields such as mobile forensics, e-discovery, malware, ransomware, video forensics you name it. They cover it with over 60 presenters. So that's a great virtual summit to join as well, also free, so that's always a plus.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, yeah, and do you have a picture there for the summit, by any chance?
Speaker 2:I do. Let me open it up here. I would have forgotten here.
Speaker 1:All right, I definitely want to show it. I want people to see the picture there. Yeah, so I want to show folks this picture, because the summit is not only in English. There will also be, I think, in Spanish and maybe also in Portuguese, and what you're seeing here is Magnet Virtual Summit, because you have the summit in person and a virtual summit also kind of running through in those days, and I'm hoping that Heather could read that, for us in Spanish.
Speaker 2:I am not reading that for you. I do not speak Spanish and I will butcher it, but you should read it in Spanish All right, all right, I'll read it. I'll just mess in with you, I know.
Speaker 1:I'm proud to present Magnet Virtual Summit 2024. So what that means is I'm proud to present it in Magnet Virtual Summit 2024. And I have that because I'll be presenting. I'll be presenting in Spanish about SecB files in iOS and macOS devices. So if you know folks, you yourself are also a Spanish speaker and you can come listen to that in Spanish. So I'll be participating in doing that. See, I have some Spanish speakers in the chat. They're volunteering to read it Too late. I read it.
Speaker 2:Oh, you could have stopped in for me. Thank you.
Speaker 1:There you go. The chat has your back, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so, yeah, so check those out, go.
Speaker 1:ahead.
Speaker 2:No, no, definitely check it out. I think it's really awesome that you're going to be presenting.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I did. There's a need for this type of content, I believe, in Spanish and in many other languages, and I wish I had had a little bit more time to do some of that. Maybe hopefully for next year, because the Francis community in the United States maybe we can expand and make that community even larger by creating some of that content in Spanish. So we'll see if we can work on that throughout the later half of the year after we're done with IASIS.
Speaker 2:Yeah, wait till we're done with that. Magnet is also going to be doing their capture of the flag during this time. If nobody has ever done a capture of the flag, they are so awesome to learn about new artifacts and really sharpen your skills, but so frustrating when you can't find the artifacts that they're asking you to find. But I highly suggest that any of the capture of the flag from any of the companies that put these on, because it really really does sharpen your skills in digital forensics. The register date is by February 28th and then the images and the download links will be available March 1st for that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's always a good CTF, the one that Magnet puts up. I think Jessica Hyde and some of the Exordia crew were instrumental in building that CTF, so it's going to be a good time. And look, at least you can be safe, because Kevin says that he won't be playing, so at least you know there's a chance for you to go to the first place, since the king of the CTFs is not participating.
Speaker 2:Oh, come on, Kevin, we're not going to create a team like we did for the Celebrite one when you carry us.
Speaker 1:Carry us, put us in bed, work us up and just about totally push us ahead. I think Kevin can't participate because he's part of the you know kind of set up the thing up and he'll be teaching on that and on those topics as well. So, yeah, he's on the producing side this time around.
Speaker 2:Okay, gotcha, so we have no team. I don't know how we'll do, just me and you.
Speaker 1:We'll play as anonymous. They don't know. It's us. There you go, yeah. So yeah go, ctfs. And again, we're talking about CTFs without saying what it is. It's captured, the flags, or maybe they we did. It's on the screen. But the point is, even if you're new, don't be afraid, there's nothing you know, you just learn. You go there. And Jessica told me that there's challenges of all. You know, full expertise levels. So if you're a beginner, there'll be some flags that you can definitely build and work on. If you're an expert, there'll be flags for you as well. And the point is not winning. I mean it is, but the main point is learning. So winning is the point, and the bigger point is learning. So go check it out.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So we're going to talk about shift gears a little here and talk about a new gadget that has come out. That is not released yet, I don't believe, but it has to do. Well, it's called Rabbit R1. It does not replace your smartphone. Let me put a, let me put a picture up. I'll explain what it is here. Okay, there we go. So it's a little gadget that is a standalone AI device that works with the applications that you have on your phone. So it is. I don't believe it's released yet, but it's $199 and it's described as sort of a universal controller for your apps. One of the articles I read about it described it also as similar to Alexa or a Google Assistant, and it runs on Rabbit's own operating system, the Rabbit OS, and it can control your music, they say. It can order you a car, it can buy your groceries, send messages and more, all through one single interface. So I have to get one.
Speaker 1:Can you write my reports?
Speaker 2:It might write your reports. You have to get one. If I get one, we'll test that for you. Right, we'll do our testing and validation on this device, but it sounds cool.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, and it's one of the more creative I say creative, but I will say more of the next step in AI usage. So what folks are seeing on the screen is a little almost square block with a screen, is smaller than a phone or an iPhone. There's an iPhone behind it. For size comparison, I would say, half, maybe half bottom, half of it, just thicker, has a little camera that rotates from the back to the unforth. Pretty much you talk to the thing and the thing does things for you. So this is based on what they call a large action model. What that means is that they taught their AI to be able to interact with the apps. This is different from Siri or Google. That's going to tie to the operating system and you can only ask certain things from that operating system. This has this language model that interacts with apps. If you want to go to Instagram and get stuff from Instagram, you tell the rabbit hey, I want to do this and this on Instagram or whatever information that you're requiring or actually you wanted to do.
Speaker 1:Now the first thing that came to my mind is okay, so this rabbit thing is going to be the middle person between the actions on the app API side versus me, the user. So my question is well, what is kept? Are those commands, transactions, kept somewhere? Is there any way to pull them from them? How will they look on the other side, on the, say, the Instagrams or LinkedIn or whatever interactions apps does? How would that look? How can we differentiate when an action is done straight by the user versus an action being middle manned or middle person in the middle type of thing with the device or AI in the middle?
Speaker 1:It's not, it's neither a man or a woman, it's an AI, so AI in the middle. What legal repercussions could that have? Because it's not me pressing, I told the AI to do it. Can I claim later that, well, I told the AI to do this, but the AI misunderstood me. That's not what I actually wanted. And look what the AI did. Oh my goodness, all that contraband is down on my device. How did that happen? The AI confused the words. Or look, all that money got moved from one account to the other, and it's the AI that misunderstood me.
Speaker 2:That's a really different version of the it wasn't me defense.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but even I mean it's like I see it like well, it wasn't me, it wasn't malware. We know that 99.99 percent of the time is not true. But how do we know that? Because we have to go and show that it's not true. We got to show no, no, look that malware there is just there to show you apps or just to grab data so they can sell it, so they can put you better ads on your phone. So when you say, oh, I love a green car, all of a sudden your phone is showing you green cars, buy green cars all around. That's the process I immediately think about. What are the differences in artifacts and how's that going to impact my extraction of them, my understanding of them and even the legal aspects? When you put in these devices in the middle of the interaction, I think we're heading to a brave new world in regards to how we put the user behind the keyboard when an AI is kind of in the middle of the thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Definitely. I am really curious to see the same thing and I think I am going to actually buy one. So be ready, we're going to be investigating this and adding support into the leaps right To tell whether or not. Ai, use it. We'll see, we'll see.
Speaker 1:I can only hope.
Speaker 2:I'm going to put you to work.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and Abraham is saying that the AI pin is another wearable handheld too. Are you familiar with that one, heather?
Speaker 2:I'm not. I've never heard of it. That's why I threw the comment up, because I'm definitely going to go research that I think others should too, check it out, see what it has to offer.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I know a little bit. I mean, it's not the topic, it's going to be about rabbit, but I'll bring it quickly. Folks, I don't know. Literally it's like a little device. It's smaller than the rabbit and it's a pin so you can put it on your shirt. I think of it as a Star Trek communicator If your trek is here on the show, they go computer, whatever. So you talk to the thing, the thing responds to you and if it wants to show you something, you put your hand out. It has a little projector so they can project whatever it is in your hand. So I guess the idea is for liberating you from the endless scrolling of an iPhone-like brick phone device. So, but the interesting thing about the rabbit is that it's built on top of things that you already use, and that's what I find interesting, because the learning curve and the applicability of it seems to be something that's already easier to adopt.
Speaker 1:Quick note we haven't said it since the beginning, neither the activities, training, products, software. We are not sponsored by anybody. We're not haters and we're also not shills, right. We just talk about things that we find interesting. So always keep that in mind. We're just talking about things that we find might be of use. So yeah, there'll be a lot of changes in our work in regards to that. So yeah, megan is saying the chat that now I can act like I'm in Star Trek. It's OK, megan, when I go to the supermarket, I believe I'm a Jedi.
Speaker 1:When the doors open by themselves, so I feel like I can open the doors with my mind.
Speaker 2:Kevin says hey, hey, rabbit, show me all the artifacts on you now export as a PDF. So it's going to do your reports for you right there. That's the command.
Speaker 1:I know If you're created enough for your commands, you might get away with some of that. Hey, rabbit, can you read yourself, please? Thank you, yeah, so, no, so, and there's a lot of different developments. One last thing I want to say I've seen some early reviews and there was some complaints with the rabbit that it takes too long to respond. Of course, the idea and the execution of two different things. These things evolve their first generation products.
Speaker 1:But I do like this discussion because as an examiner, I need to be in the mindset of what's around the curve and how I'm going to adapt. And that links to what I was talking about early, about Annie Isley. She was doing her job, doing math by hand, and that was her job. Right, there were some of them that were doing these calculations and when computers came in she could have said well, you know, guess what, I'm out of a job now, I'm outdated. But she saw around that curve and saw that these computers need to be programmed, these computers need to be properly instructed to do the things that we need them to do. And she evolved with the technology and became a programmer herself and actually became even more essential to the work that NASA did during those times and even to this day. So always emulate that thought process and you will always be useful.
Speaker 2:So we also have an article here AI Fingerprints Unique or Maybe Not, so I'm going to let you take that one.
Speaker 1:So this is a really interesting article, and do you have it or do I have it?
Speaker 2:I have the link. Would you like me to get it open up?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, please bring it up so they can have the folks that are watching have a visual. So what is this article about? So for the longest and I'm not a fingerprint expert, of course, I'm just going from what the news report states out the general consensus is that all fingerprints are unique, and even the fingerprints from your own hands. So we got 10 fingers, or whatever fingers we have, and those fingerprints are distinct from each other. So some students from a computer science class they went out. I don't remember the university right now. Maybe you can scroll down and maybe find it. Not that it really matters for the discussion, but the point is this they went and took a government publicly available fingerprint database and they trained the large language model, the AI, on it and what they discovered this is interesting is that you can determine with the highly levels of success even up to 77% success rates that a fingerprint from one, say, one hand and another one from another hand. The AI could determine if those fingerprints belong to the same person. Does that make sense? Not that they're identical, but that they belong to the same person. And this is like it was so shocking that when they try to release their report in some of the scientific journals. They're like no, this is bullcrap, this is impossible.
Speaker 1:We know that all fingerprints are unique and what the research was saying is look, you can tell two different fingerprints came from the same person. And you might ask yourself why is this important? Well, imagine a case, a cold case, where you have fingerprints but those fingerprints have no identical, matching records in our fingerprint databases. What if we could take that fingerprint, run it through this AI and then tell me look, these other fingerprints that I have could be a match for that hand or that person that you're looking for. And this is important because the AI taught us something that we didn't know before. So this type of coding, it's not only implementing things that we know, it goes and discovers things that we didn't know. And what the researchers believe is happening is that usually we determine not usually the process to determine if fingerprints are identical to another is by how they're, the curvature of the different categories I'm not categories, but the curvatures of each fingerprint.
Speaker 1:Well, this LLM was using a whole different way of calculating not by the shape, but by different inferences within those shapes, to get to that certain degree of certainty, which is pretty wild cases will be impacted by this technology, even cases, because we always talk about hashes oh, there are fingerprints, there are fingerprints. They're unique, like fingerprints. We might need to get a better example. The fingerprints might not be as unique as we believe it to be, which, by the way, I always thought the fingerprint example is kind of weak, because a hash is way, way, way, way, way, way more unique than a fingerprint right, extremely more. Even hashes that have known collisions, like MB5, which is kind of like small length and it's not variable length, it's kind of fixed length. Let me explain that to the folks If you have a hashing algorithm which says, ok, I'm going to take this piece of data, pass it through the algorithm and get a unique identifier of this data, only that data will generate this unique value.
Speaker 1:If you have two pieces of data that generate the same unique value, that's a collision. That's a problem because now it's not uniquely identified. Well, if you have a fixed value at the end of the process fixed means that it's whatever 16 bits long, 28 bits long, 128 bits long you, by logic, pure logic, at some point you're going to get a collision right Because, let's say, you can only fit, identify uniquely 10 trillion things, the thing 10 trillion and one is going to be a repeat of that set. Right Makes sense, right, heather?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, makes sense absolutely.
Speaker 1:Now the question is how likely it is to have a collision of two things within that hashing algorithm, and how likely that is. Well, it's extremely unlikely. It's so extremely unlikely that fingerprints are way, way more likely to repeat identically than a hash value. So we always compare to fingerprints, but it's a crappy comparison because hashes are way more unique. Even hashes that have quote unquote and not quote unquote have collisions, but kind of manufactured collisions, right, not collisions in the wild. And when I say in the wild, I mean collisions not generated in a lab, right. So we need to get some better examples in how unique some of our work is and how precise some of the calculations are, and also how imprecise they can be right when we talk about fixed length output algorithms, for example.
Speaker 2:So just being honest with ourselves and with the field, I'm going to have to come up with a new analogy. I use the fingerprint one quite often, actually.
Speaker 1:I mean I'm being a little bit pedantic, I won't deny it, because for a jury, a jury is good, so relatable.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's relatable.
Speaker 1:They know what a fingerprint is, so I'm not poo-pooing that like that. I'm talking more of in the examiner world. Right, I'm reading ourselves in the field. Right, don't get me wrong, we use your fingerprint, example every day that works. They'll know what you mean, yeah, but among ourselves we can definitely kind of. You know, whoever drinks drinks, and I take my diet coke and we can do some philosophy on how can we come up with better analogies.
Speaker 2:Take this stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so yeah, and technology, technology is going to. It's going to this AI technology is going to permeate all the stuff we do, and not only in digital forensics, you know, in the broader tech world. So so much that the fears that folks are going to get fired because they're not needed, because AI is taking their place, and actually that's a prediction that's actually coming true. We have an article right.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, from the birds and yeah, we have to evolve with the technology. Some of the work that we do, if your work can be easily, how can I say this? It's just a work that's repeatable and easy to quantify. It's easy to automate, especially with an AI. Right, and there might be more of that. So I think us that we're in the field of digital forensics, we won't see that immediately Because, at the end of the day, an AI cannot go to court and testify right, right, we need a person to actually validate that. But it will mean that there will be less people within the field, as we're used to Might. I don't know, we don't really know. So the question is how can we look ahead of that curve and figure out how can I be still usable, right or service, in a world where AI is taking part of that? You know, repeatable work for us.
Speaker 2:Right, yeah, I think there will be less eventually, less employees needed, but you're always going to need the human element, in my opinion, for the digital forensic field. Have to have somebody to check that data. Make sure that AI is correct in prison and court, like you said.
Speaker 1:Yeah, jarrett's in the chair saying he loves a new background, and I put that up because whenever we take, I think we can take. I'm going to take down the thing. Yeah, I'm going to show, see, if I don't know how to even show the background only. Oh, yeah, well, the background was done by an AI model.
Speaker 2:So it goes perfectly with these topics.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so you know, I just said I want DFN and I kind of describe how I wanted it and the AI did it for me. So yeah, it definitely goes with it. Now we need to figure out how we're going to be relevant in this field and, you know, just keep your eye on that, super important.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so there was an article that came out by Luca, and I am going to butcher his last name, so I'm just going to put the link up, because his name is in the link.
Speaker 1:I'm going to make my best Italian impression.
Speaker 2:You want to try it Okay?
Speaker 1:Calonici, but I can roll.
Speaker 2:I bet you're right. I bet you're right. He did a blog recently and put it up on LinkedIn. So if anybody doesn't follow him on LinkedIn, he has some really good information that he puts out on LinkedIn. I would highly suggest following him.
Speaker 2:But he talks about a hidden gem in iOS 17. So it's a passcode reset that lets you use old, the old passcode temporarily if you forget your new passcode. So when a user, when users, alter their passcodes in iOS 17, the passcode reset provides a 72-hour window during which the old iPhone passcode or iPad passcode remains valid for accessing the device. So the way it works is on your lock screen, you input the passcode five times until you get the unavailable and then you tap Forgot Passcode at the bottom and select Enter Previous Passcode, enter the old passcode and follow the on-screen steps to set up a new passcode. So how could this benefit us in the digital forensics world, right? Yeah, absolutely, I mean I definitely. I can definitely see the use of the old passcodes. I don't know how many gray key users there are out there, but the old passcodes can be utilized for unlocking other devices. Right, if old passcodes are in there, it may give you an additional chance of accessing the device that you currently have.
Speaker 1:Oh, absolutely, and we have to use all the tools in the toolbox Sometimes. I mean, we can always try to guess and Geraldine is so good at it, it's just ridiculous. She's like you know what? I figured out? What the birthday of this thing? If I combine it with something else, let me try it. Oh, it's open, so she's also with that. But if you have access to be able to you know old passwords you can definitely kind of build yourself into because, for example, let's say, well, I have this old password. Actually, old password doesn't work with the computer but it works with the email, for example. I'm kind of making a scenario right, or some other system, and then you can get the information for the current password from that other system right Now again, it's a made up example. I'm saying that you should go and log in illegally into somebody's email. I'm saying that. But you can see yourself using that information in other systems you know as legally applicable to get into the systems you need to get into right.
Speaker 2:Right If they use that passcode once they've used it on other devices?
Speaker 1:definitely so it's human nature and it's a bad habit that we all have. Yeah, so actually, before we jump totally away from the topic, because Christopher was saying that my LinkedIn profile is AI generated, right, and I'm like let me see if I can show- I'm going to have to go check that out.
Speaker 2:Are you showing this?
Speaker 1:Well, I'm going to show mine, not his. Okay, I'm not going to show his without permission.
Speaker 2:I'm going to go check it out after.
Speaker 1:So well, the point with that is that, yeah, even something as simple as showing your face, you know I did not want, and now I can not get to the picture. Hold on, this is bear with me for a second. Folks, there we go. So I did not want to go and get there we go. I did not want to go to a professional photographer and take time to do that. So what I did was I fed the AI a whole bunch of pictures of me and it came out with that.
Speaker 1:Obviously, I look better in the AI than I look in real life. But look, as long as it's similar enough to me, you know it's actually. You know, on the profile it's kind of smaller. So people can you know there there won't be like like those dating sites. So you're like oh, you go in person. You're like are you the same person on the picture? Was that picture taken 20 years ago? You don't want to be that person. It's similar, it's close enough to me that I can pass as me, but it's all AI generated. So yeah, because before I feel you.
Speaker 2:My LinkedIn picture is also an AI generated. I look all professional in that picture. They really did a good job fixing me up.
Speaker 1:Well.
Speaker 2:I might as well use it.
Speaker 1:Exactly, I mean don't. I mean not that you would, but you know, don't use it on dating sites. Yeah, no, yeah, all right. So sorry about that. I had to make that comment because, yeah, I use AI on my profiles as well. So I'm with you, christopher.
Speaker 2:So another topic that we're going to discuss Android Auto Reboot. So there was recently an article let me put the link up here about Android Auto Reboot. So the OS team is suggesting that Android should introduce an auto reboot feature to make exploitation of firmware flaws more difficult. I don't like hearing that, but either. So they tweeted, we've recently reported firmware vulnerabilities that are being exploited by forensic companies to obtain data from devices that are not at rest. If device is at rest, it isn't relevant and data is safe. Our auto reboot feature is there to get devices back at rest automatically. So they point out that rebooting the device terminates all temporary states, processes and activities that could be exploited and requires authentication like your PIN, passcode, biometric or any other way to unlock the device, and it thereby reengages all security mechanisms.
Speaker 1:So I yeah, I mean I don't like hearing that, but I like how they use the terms at rest right when the phone is at rest versus I guess it's awake, I guess is the other term, I don't know Obviously for that that means BFU, afu, right? Is it after first unlock or before first unlock? And again, folks like us we've been doing this for a while we know that it's before first unlock, right. So you have the phone. Before it was the pin code was accessed, you might get some data. If it's not going to be way more limited, then you will get with after first unlock. If the person already put the pin code and it locked again, but at least it was unlocked once, you will get some more. And again, you get different levels of access if you have the whole pass code versus not having it, depending on the tool that you're using.
Speaker 1:The point is this, I think, from my perspective, is if phones are going to start rebooting themselves after a certain amount of time just to get them out of AFU, to go back to BFU, just to make quote unquote more secure, then that means that when you get that phone you can't just sit on it. You can be like well, I'll work on this in two days, because no, I mean extractions will then go into the priority list and the parsing part, not that it's not priority, but we have to wait or establish a mechanism where we're constantly attending to these, to get those extractions and another process to then look into how we parse it in a timely manner. But it just tells us that, what it informs me of what my priority is going to be and what's going to be at the top of that list.
Speaker 2:Yeah, definitely. So we have come to what's new with the leaps, and there are a few new things with the leaps. One, actually, metadata forensics wrote a parser for the leaps and it's for the Siri remembers SQLite database. So that database is a combination of biome and interaction C and the new I leap artifact parses messages, calls and media. So I'm going to share my screen and show what that looks like in I leap.
Speaker 1:And again, free, open source tool. You can get it to parse your mobile devices and just going to show us this, this new artifact. It was brought by metadata forensics, correct.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:So, thank you, metadata forensics to also contribute into the community and putting that research out and usable for everybody. So we thank you immensely, thank you.
Speaker 2:So the artifact you want to run is called Siri remembers and it calls media and messages. We're in this, this extraction, and let me just one second. So this is a look at what the calls look like for this artifact and I leap and then have a media file available and then messages in this artifact. So it gives you the timestamp, recipient, the recipient handle, sender, the direction of the messages, the application bundle ID that the message is coming from and the UUID that the message is coming from, as well as some other data related to the messages.
Speaker 1:No, and and that's great for that pattern of life when other data points are not available, at least you got something you can build on, because if you don't have the message from this end, this database can tell you that. Well, you know what they might be a copy somewhere else, right, and data is like that. Data is like rabbits talking about rabbit. A second ago, if you have a message is going to you know that you have on your text message, you send it to another phone. Now there's a copy on the other phone and when that person forward says, hey, look what this guy said or this gal said, and for now you have that message on a third phone, but it's not only on the third phone. It multiplies because now there's a cloud backup of those devices.
Speaker 1:So now that message is in three different cloud backups somewhere else, right, and if you go around and even within the phone, it might be a link to that in a knowledge to see for the database or a sec B format within problem of like data likes to replicate uncontrollably right, and it's our job to be aware of what places are those? Where are these replications happening so we can get to them whenever one of the spots we're kind of used to getting the data first hand is not available anymore, so our job is also be aware of where the stuff could be replicated as we move forward, and that applies to emails, documents you think about it digitally? Just name it, there will be a copy somewhere else. You just need to figure out where they are hiding.
Speaker 2:And I think you're going to talk about some other things that are new with the leaps.
Speaker 1:Oh, absolutely. So let me see here. So recently I don't have an image to show folks so I discovered verbally because we had some requests from your partner wrong for men agencies from overseas to say hey look, now notifications in iOS went from in our 17 from being housed within a sec sec B version one format to sec B two format, and they were asking is there a way to update that? So, thanks to, again, ccl solutions and their code, I took some time and I updated that, so now you can go and get those notifications running through iLeap and then you'll get the messages out from those sec B version two files. It was really and again, I cannot show you because we use case data for that, so obviously we cannot share that. But the cool thing about it which is why I love this field so much we discovered in the process that there's another data type within the sec B files that we need to consider. So we talked to Alice Katnes and we talked about how that goes and he was able to update the code to take in consideration all those new data types. So it's pretty exciting. There's always something new to be learned. So you want to check that out.
Speaker 1:So we got that available notifications, sec B two, which, by the way, you're thinking who cares about notification? Let me tell you if you have a message coming in and you get notification, the text sometimes the full text of it is inside the communication. If the person goes and deletes the message, that notification is hanging out. Because where do you go to the notifications? I mean, you can swipe them to not for them not to be there, but notification. There's no delete notification button, right, just you can swipe them away and that's it. So this is going to be there. So you'll be surprised of again another place because data wants to replicate. They're like bunnies, right. Another place if you don't have it on the database for that chat or that SMS, go look at notifications. Maybe it's hanging out there. So now we have support for that. So I'm pretty happy. Yeah, that's awesome.
Speaker 2:I think he updated the script what in record time, too right.
Speaker 1:Obviously. I mean, come on, come on, you know, alex, he's a freaking genius, so it's like, oh yeah, that's as easy Done, yeah, so so we have those and, like I mentioned before, let me, let me look that up. I want to share the name Patrick Dela. He was able to update AOLI, which is, for Android's also open source tool, free. You can go get it and we'll provide the links in the show notes as well. And now you can take a Gmail database, the big top data thingdb, and if there's more than one now you can have different reports for each and every one of them, which is, again, super useful.
Speaker 1:And that's what tooling tooling constantly evolves and that's what you need to do. We use multiple tooling. You can have a tool that shows you a thousand messages and another that shows you 2000 messages. We had example we're not going to share it here, but we had example of that this week, right, and you need to have multiple tools. You need to be able to manually check stuff out. I mentioned the thing last episode. You have a sec b file. What if Apple drops a new sec b file? Then what? Right, you need to be kind of aware if you're not finding something that you expect to be finding, be aware of the data could be hiding and see you can find it. It's like a big treasure hunt every day and we get paid for it.
Speaker 2:It absolutely is. You're not finding new data, too, that nothing's supporting, and then, of course, passing it off to all of you guys that can write the artifacts for it.
Speaker 1:I'll find it.
Speaker 2:I'll find it for you. You write the. You write the scripts.
Speaker 1:You know what? After, after I assist, I'm just going to prod you to finish the Python class yeah, so you can start building something. Oh, I will. I will, I will you know how it is.
Speaker 2:I know you will. So that brings us to everybody's favorite part of the show. Why the meme of the week? Let me get that shown on the screen.
Speaker 1:Meme of the week. You know, that means you know fireworks yeah.
Speaker 2:That's very nice.
Speaker 1:Valentine's.
Speaker 2:Day is coming up.
Speaker 1:And we love the meme of the week. So we need some hearts, some reaction. Oh, my, my profile here right. What do we have?
Speaker 2:So the meme of the week has two people that are arguing and the text reads there are some priority cases coming in. You already gave me 10 priority cases yesterday, and then all of today's cases are also priority cases. If all cases are priority cases, no cases of priority case, and I assume it's the boss at the end yelling. Do the priority cases first. I am 100% that everybody that's listening to this can relate completely to this meme. Every case that comes in is a priority.
Speaker 1:I like this meme because he's the guy from the. I think it's a La chopper show. I don't know if you've seen it, oh yeah, yeah. So it's like a father and son team and people come to make custom bikes and the whole show is hilarious because they're always arguing, right, and they scream at each other and but you know, they love each other, of course, and then this back and forth. It's just, it's just your life, you know. Again, I'm not saying it happened to me, maybe it might not. You know I'm, you know I'm gonna preserve the liability of this, the specific of this meme, but it's true, right, if you're listening to this, right, and you're in charge of managing and digital forensics outfit, right? Are you just assigning stuff because somebody says it's a priority and you just assign it and forget it? Right? Orange County chopper. There we go. That's the, not Ellen.
Speaker 1:I guess, Orange County is in California is close enough. But and yeah, I mean you, you can't. And look, I understand, maybe the three cases or, like Christopher's saying, maybe the three cases in the chat. There are priorities for sure, but what does that mean? Just because they're priority, just you, just you saying stating this is our priority, doesn't mean it's just gonna happen. Right. It's like like the office I declare bankruptcy. That's not how it works. Resources have to come behind that. If you're not providing your team with the resources to handle the priorities, then they're not priorities. They're just cases that are coming in and they'll be worked as humanly possible right.
Speaker 1:If you're burning your people, burning the candle on both ends all the time, then you have a problem. If heroics have to save the day every day, then the process is flawed. There's a lack of resources or a lack of organization. I don't know what it is, but it's your job as the manager to be a force multiplier. What that means is you're there to help produce more in an easier, faster way. It doesn't mean you're just gonna whip people to get more work out of it or become an examiner, because at that point you're not a multiplier, you're an addition.
Speaker 1:You're another examiner in the team, so you're adding but you're not multiplying. The thing is, look at how I can get those resources. People processes so we go from having a little to exponentially grow our output as needed. So think of yourself as a multiplier. If you're managing these things, think yourself as a multiplier and you can apply that as an examiner. Think of yourself also as a multiplier. How can I automate my processes? How can I line up my tools to be able to get the most output, the most analysis done with the resources that I have allocated as I wait for more?
Speaker 2:Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1:Does that make sense, Heather?
Speaker 2:It definitely makes sense. I don't know how many other people get this too, but it's whoever, whichever case investigator or case manager or whatever is screaming the loudest about the case. It automatically seems to be comma priority. Yeah, it just can't.
Speaker 1:I mean, I understand if the chief comes down and says this is the priority, okay, well, that's the priority, right? Right, but the chief is not coming down and saying here's a hundred priorities, right we?
Speaker 1:use common sense. If the chief says it, then we do it, of course. But as a manager, as managers, we need to make sure that we think about these things. Our job is not just passing the buck, it's actually being forced multipliers. I think that's a good thought to kind of close the show. How can we force multipliers for good in work, in life, in society, in all things that we do? Awesome All right Awesome.
Speaker 1:Well, I want to thank again everybody that's been in the chat. Thank you for your comments. You made the chat and lively and made the show lively, so we thank you for the folks that are listening or watching later. We also thank you for taking the time to be part of the community. Do send us in our LinkedIn page or look us up there or by name, send us your ideas, send us your questions, send us your suggestions. You can be candid. Also, try to be kind at the same time I won't take offense to anything.
Speaker 1:But be kind, though, yeah, and we will try to kind of reflect the things that are important to you and reflect them on the show. So, brett, I got to put this in because Brett is somebody that I respect immensely. So thank you so much for saying that we're the bestie for podcasts. That's high praise.
Speaker 2:Thank you very much.
Speaker 1:I appreciate it, my friend. All right, and any last words for the good of the order, heather.
Speaker 2:That's it. Thank you so much for tuning in.
Speaker 1:All right, everybody. So we're going to come back in two weeks and we'll see each other then. So see you later, everybody.
Speaker 2:Bye.
Speaker 1:Bye.
